Interview with Tijs Breuer about his working method as a life coach

by Bas Timmermans

Publication: see magazine Hello gorgeous

Can you tell us what you do as a coach and how you got there?

I ended up in coaching through my job as a manager. After all, as a manager you are also a coach, I think. I saw that the insights and self-knowledge that a coachee gains also yielded a lot of benefits in their personal lives. Gradually I therefore started doing life coaching, with the methods of Essence Coaching (in which body and mind are approached integrally) and mindfulness exercises as a background.

I have broadened talking during coaching to body-oriented coaching. Since I was already a masseur in my spare time, I saw the positive effect of touch. So it was a logical step to apply that as a coach. Not only analyzing, but also contact with your body ensures that you look at things differently, and you start to feel better.

I work with intimacy. That quickly becomes a dangerous term, but for me the key to deep contact. Because it's about showing what you find difficult to show. Intimacy is also about sexuality, that aspect was added because I was discovering what suited me, I wanted to work taboo-breaking and not be put in a box.

More than half of the people in my practice are men. I'm generalizing a bit, but straight men often feel the need to discover their sensitivity. And gay men want to get rid of superficial physical contact and make real contact with their body and vulnerability.

What are your principles for coaching?

Taboo-breaking, non-judgmental and curious. People usually come to me in an unpleasant situation, with an issue. The solution often lies in acceptance of reality, how life presents itself. The situation doesn't change, but you can change your attitude about it by confronting it. Then you can, for example, face the fact that you simply cannot meet the demands that your boss makes of you. And that the solution is to look for another job.

I hold up a mirror to people who come to me curiously but without judgment and confront them with the norms, values ​​and truths they believe. And what taboos they have and where they come from; mourning, sickness, death and old age. But also taboos related to sex. While they can actually lead to discoveries and acceptance of yourself. Often deeper layers emerge.

That is the bridge to body-oriented work. The wisdom in your body is amazing. We think it's all in our heads, but no matter how much you've forgotten or pushed away; it is stored in your body. And that comes back with touch, by going into your body. The mental resistance I encounter is physically present in your body and can be felt: hard spots and tense muscles, tendons that do not want to stretch. These are emotions and mental pain that are stored in your body, sometimes for a long time. When I go there with my hand, with warmth and attention, with love, those trapped energy and emotions are released. And then the tension disappears. Something happens physically and emotionally.

Hello gorgeous's main goal is to normalize HIV and to combat (self)stigma. How do you view that?

Stigma is a social judgment, what others think of deviating from the norm. Then ask yourself: what judgments about myself and learned patterns confirm that? Facing that is necessary to come to peace with yourself. Accept your "mistakes" or what didn't go the way you hoped. If you run away from that, you lose contact with yourself. Then you will stigmatize yourself. And what's inside, you ultimately radiate. Then you also lose contact with others.

In addition, you are always alert and on guard if you have to live with a secret. It takes a lot of energy and you never really relax physically. You can get physical complaints as a result.

Do you have practical tips that anyone can apply to make your life a little better?

Self love. Lost contact with yourself can be restored by paying genuine attention to yourself. Examine your thoughts, but explore and discover your body in the same way. Take the time for that: that body is yours, you can be happy with it! For example, do some sports and really feel your body, during the activity, but also afterwards: what do you notice, what feels good, where does it hurt?

You can also give yourself that attention through masturbation. Not by quickly working towards an orgasm, but by taking the time and feeling the sensations. Give yourself that attention and you'll feel better about yourself. By listening to yourself, you know what you need, so that you can also reconnect with others.

Working in a body-oriented way can also help. People I touch in my practice feel that they are alive again. The journey inwards makes you sensitive to what is happening in your body and you discover deeper layers; pleasure and pleasure, but also pain.

What is your own life motto?

Whatever works. What works, that works, that's what matters to me.

About Bas Timmermans

Bas started as an editor for structuring the site and building beautiful pages. Good texts and a strong image are basic requirements, but he gradually learned that an effective website requires more. As a project leader, he applied this in large web projects for the municipality of Amsterdam: integrating 40 intranets, restructuring and rewriting entire web components and completely rebuilding the English version of the municipality website. The emphasis in his projects has always been on content: cleaning, restructuring, improving and creating. During those projects, he focused more on 'building' content based on facts and research. 

There is no turning back - Interview Emmalia Bijker

Every now and then I go to dance with Emmalia. We know each other from the time of the Essence Coaching course and we both really enjoy the free-form “estatic dance”, where everything is possible and allowed, except for talking to each other or drinking alcohol. In March 2018 I spoke to her at the kitchen table. Emmalia Bijker has had its own yoga school in Abcoude for decades. Emmalia told me what she thought about Essence Coaching and how this has changed her way of working as a yoga teacher: “I can't go back to the yoga I used to teach”. 

Emmalia: “During the Essence Coaching course I found the path that I would like to expand towards more awareness. That was completely in line with my own path. ”

I was looking for a connection with an unknown side of myself. I missed my entrepreneurial spirit, I wanted to put myself down more and show myself more clearly. An interview on Youtube really appealed to me. In it Lenne Gieles described the balance between the inner man and the inner woman. During the Essence coaching training I got to know my own inner man and I discovered his need. Need for recognition and recognition. By giving this recognition to myself, I was able to experience myself as more complete. And I could give myself more space, by letting everything be there. It sounds simple, but this was a painful process at first. Because there were also times when I did not experience that recognition and that was very confronting.

At the same time I discovered my inner wife, who was allowed to dare to feel more. I can help other people better because I am more myself. I allow my own feelings more, show this to others and with that I pass on this wisdom. Those who are open to this I have something to offer, namely a journey of discovery to and within yourself.

Did that journey go completely unscathed with you? 

I've come across quite a bit sometimes and it hurts. I saw the pain in others and realized that the other person also mirrors my own pain. The meditations and the protective warmth of each other allowed me to get to that pain. This self-examination led to insight and the release of resistances. This has made me more complete. I continue to encounter defenses and pain, but I come back to myself faster. I quickly recover from imbalance and regain my balance.

I can't go back to the yoga I used to teach. That takes some getting used to for some. She laughs and says: “When I recently had them rock each other's heads during a yoga class, for example, this evoked resistance. One student said, I come here to do yoga exercises ”. 

My way of working as a yoga teacher has broadened partly due to Essentiecoaching. I work with themes that add more depth to the yoga class.

With a theme such as surrender yoga, relaxation and personal development come together. During surrender exercises, participants experience how they cramp. Shaking or rocking legs and arms makes you aware of how difficult it is to surrender to the other person and to the situation. I help you to let go of control, by finding a safe place within yourself. Essence coaching has given me added value. By standing behind someone as a teacher, the yoga practitioners experience support for themselves and they feel safe. In this way they can show their vulnerability.

With the theme of love I pay attention to the love for your body. Many students treat an arm as one thing. Having them treat their own arm or another's arm like a baby makes them more subtle in their movement, with more attention and love.

Participants may also indicate themselves what keeps them busy, so that we can respond to this in class. These are often coordinated themes, which are also important for other participants. I listen, I am there for the other person and broaden the theme so that others recognize themselves in it. Then I choose an exercise that matches the dilemma that has been brought in. These are often body and emotional experience-oriented exercises, where you become aware of sensations and blockages in your body. You can also be invited to gain experiences with a partner.

This way of working I attract other students. Especially people who want to live more consciously. My way of working provokes resistance in others. It is too confronting for them to feel more.

Do you not scare participants away from your group lessons?

Everyone is and remains welcome. I am open to all students. When choosing themes, I also ensure that I have something to offer for less experienced students. By connecting on multiple dimensions, I connect to the differences in level. Everyone can join the theme at their own level.

For example, the theme of earth. Most people manage to ground. I let everyone walk and feel the earth. A level deeper, by also using imagination. For example, imagine kissing the Earth. Some of the people may laugh, but for others it gives an extra depth. So I leave people free to take out what benefits them.

Emmalia Bijker's website: yogaemmalia.nl

Through real attention I make the difference - Interview Teuna Bongers

Three years ago I got into conversation with Teuna Bongers during the leadership training ”LIFE”. We were both interim directors and fascinated by the theme of attention. A good reason to visit Teuna at work, at Kinderopvang Heijendaal. When she warmly welcomed me to her office on a sunny spring day in 2017, where she managed 50 employees as acting director, she felt calm. She beamed with joy as she spoke to the parents and supervisors. I asked her: What is attention anyway?

Teuna: “Attention is taking time for what the other comes with. Just sit down for it. When I pay attention, I make room in myself to be there for the other. ” Does that always work out? “When someone enters my study, I quickly make a distinction. Is it urgent or is it something that can also be discussed at a different time. Sometimes the other just needs a moment to be seen or heard. Because she is walking around with something that bothers her, for example. That can also be important. ”

What is it like to receive attention. What does that do to you?
“It's nice to receive attention from people I have connected with. But in my role as a manager I do not immediately want attention. Above all, I want to be able to be myself. I have no need to draw attention to my employees. Of course I ask for functional attention when I stand in front of all employees and speak to them. “

“It is nice when I feel like I'm being carried. That is nice if people pay attention from the board. You immediately notice whether that attention is genuine. Then I know that there is a connection and that I can also count on the other. That also applies to myself. If I pay attention myself, I also want to be prepared to receive what you get in return and to do something with it later. I do this by taking joint responsibility, giving support where necessary or returning to it. “

If you pay attention, what does that bring you?
“An employee just wants to share something with me, she asks for a moment of attention. After that, she can do their job with less burden or worry. Very functional. Because she can give her full attention to the children again. But giving attention is also very grateful. Something happens in myself when I pay attention. It gives me great satisfaction when I see someone brighter out of my room. The mere fact that people come to share something is an expression of confidence. I enjoy that. ”

“At such a moment there is also something of letting go of what you are doing. You just have to flip a button. I let go of thinking and arranging and am in the now for a moment. The only thing that matters at that moment is the contact between me and the employee. Actually, at that moment I don't have to do anything but be there completely. Only then is there real attention. And then there is the confidence that I can see the other from my presence and that the solutions will present themselves. That it is good as it is. ”

Teuna gives an example. “There was a group where complaints were that the babies were crying so much. Can happen. Then it turned out that the group had a leader who had a lot of worries. It became clear to me that when there is a lot of crying or a lot of unrest among the children, I should really go and see what is the matter with those leaders. Paying attention to them is therefore also for the children. When I gave the employee space for herself, the babies cried less. Then I saw that there was a direct connection. ”

How does your attention ensure more independence?
Attention also creates more self-awareness among employees and enables them to cope with more. When I started, my predecessor set an extra rule about how to deal with sick children and they did not want to discuss this directly with parents. I was surprised that they themselves proposed that that rule, which was there to protect them, should be abolished again. They themselves are able to discuss this with the parents. I see that they have become more resilient and self-aware themselves.

Let's say you don't have your day and can't get that attention for a while. Do you notice that this has an effect on others?
Teuna: “What I learned during the LIFE leadership course is that what you radiate doesn't stop here. Teuna puts her hand on her chest. “I radiate that further than just my skin and others absorb it. I experienced this firsthand during the training.

“When I first started here, employees assumed that managers never had time anyway. As a result, they didn't come up with the things they worried about. They tried to solve it themselves or it took on a life of its own. Because of that frustration and employees took an attitude of survival, they only did the essentials. I am glad I was able to break through that. ”

“There was an employee,” said Teuna, “who wanted to share something with me, but she estimated that I was not open to it. She had had a collision with a parent, she wanted to say that before she saw that parent again. As an employee you are looking for the most feasible solution for that moment. By sparring you can talk about it: why did it touch you so much. And what are alternatives. As a result, it does not become unnecessarily larger. Now she has been walking around with it for two weeks. If I could have spoken to her, I could have asked her, what would you like to say with the parent next time? ”

“There are different degrees of attention. Is it a regulation or does someone want to say something of themselves. You can taste this in the first sentence. ” (Teuna Bongers)

I have a small chair next to my desk, so that someone can come and sit with me, without immediately creating a consultation situation. Another form of attention is really seeing the other, in that where they are before, how they are doing their work.

Teuna: “I sometimes take the time to join a group and see how things are going. I then draw their attention to the work they do and not the problem they come up with. I see them in their work. When I am in the group I do not have any comments, I do ask questions but otherwise I am just present. It makes no sense to constantly mention what is not right or what I do not like. ”

What does that presence do to them?
It is a basic need to be seen. I consider it a form of appreciation and respect. I think that the people you direct directly should see in their work. It is a form of respect and appreciation for the primary process, the real work they do. With that I show: what you do, that's what it's all about.

Moreover, I can fulfill my role better if I also see how they work from my position. If something unpleasant happens then, I can better place the problems and think along about solutions.

"Every now and then I help out, which is of course not the intention." Teuna laughs. “One of the leaders then said: oh Teuna are you working? To which I said: Usually I am working here, but not right now! ”

"As a manager I can say that attention makes the difference." (Teuna Bongers)

“The whole nursery is changing with more attention. An employee recently said: Since you came here things have happened again. You create something. What I achieve is that I invite people to dare more and to undertake things. Because of the attention I give, they have more self-confidence and enthusiasm to stick out their necks. They come to work with more pleasure and motivation. ”

Confidence creates space for creativity - Interview Eva Breuer

My daughter Eva studied political science in Brussels. In April 2017, she thought it would be interesting to take a look behind the scenes at a municipal organization. A sniffing internship was arranged in no time. At the municipality of Sint Anthonis, where I was working as director (ad interim) at the time, Eva walked for two days. She spoke to managers and joined meetings. She also went out with one of the councilors. Below you can read the interview from 2017, when I asked her about her experiences. I then thought to myself: A lot more people should be doing this!

What was the reason that you once wanted to do an internship at a municipality?
I study political science and that is a lot of theory and little practice. I thought it would be interesting to see in practice how it works in a political organization. In addition, a study focuses mainly on a national level. It's nice to see this at a local level at a municipality. Moreover: in Belgium, where I study, things are different than in the Netherlands. That comparison is also interesting. Of course there was a special chance that my father now works at the municipality of Sint Anthonis and that I could also see him at work and thus paste faces on the stories.

What surprised you the most?
Everything is human work. The work behind the computer does not determine the result, but the personal contacts between colleagues are very important and ensure a better quality of advice. In working groups, people listened closely to each other, and space was given to each other to provide input. For example, employees complemented each other beautifully and came up with solutions and new insights. I also saw that directors use each other and the employees as a sounding board. This feedback allows them to make better decisions.

I saw big differences in the attitude and behavior of managers. They can create clarity by discussing things well in consultation, instead of sending an email. And I noticed how a manager's attitude provokes a reaction among employees and this largely determines how a colleague takes up work. When there is trust, employees feel more free to come up with creative and original solutions and to share them with each other and their manager.

I was also surprised at the degree of freedom that an official has within the framework set by the city council. There is a lot of leeway for the civil servant in giving advice to the Municipal Executive to give his own interpretation. I thought that the council and the college determine the direction and officials only carry out. The political color has less influence than I thought. In practice, aldermen have to rely to a great extent on the professional advice of their officials, because they cannot possibly understand everything. I saw that the councilor listened carefully to the legal adviser, but did contribute her own vision and position. That interaction is interesting.

What to bring to Brussels
I thought that working as a civil servant in an office would be very boring, but the work can be very dynamic and varied. It can be very interesting and challenging in terms of content, as well as the way in which colleagues and managers interact. A laugh and a joke can suddenly make everything much lighter and give the discussion a different twist. Also funny to see that the managers just as much need an outlet. Pleasure at work is just as important as the result.

Experience your own uniqueness and feel at home everywhere - Interview with May Ing Tan

Whether you are an expat, immigrant, gay or divorced mother, we all differ. The outside world expects you to adapt. We'll do that, because we have a natural need to be part of the monoculture. Sin! By accepting myself with all my particulars, I feel more free. Then it no longer matters where I live and where my home is, because I feel good with myself wherever I am. I come home to myself.

Mayt Ing Tan

With this, May Ing Tan briefly summarizes the basis of Essence Coaching, a course where she is one of the main teachers and to which I was able to contribute in 2014 as a co-trainer. Coaching is a trend in the Netherlands. There are about 40.000 coaches in the Netherlands and more and more people are temporarily guided by a coach. “Why is the need for coaching so great?” I asked her in August 2014.

Tan: In our culture it is “not done” to investigate your own person to the depths. Thereby, therapy is only destined for those who really have a problem and need help to function in our society. Coaching is more accessible because it focuses on both your work and your personality. With coaching you do not dig into the past, but you get to work with the things you encounter in the here and now. This fits in with the current need for quick results on the one hand and self-realization on the other.

In the Netherlands, many employees are sent to a coach by their manager because they are not performing optimally or because the organization expects something different from them. For example, they need to become more assertive or collaborate better. The Anglican corporate culture demands a lot from its employees. The employer pays for the coaching process and therefore expects something in return: higher productivity, better performance, loyalty. This is reflected in the annual appraisal interviews. In the Netherlands you are expected to be individualistic, but also to conform to the rest and thus adapt to the middle bracket. This combination places high demands on someone's behavior. Coaching can help to deal with this better.

May-ing-2

The term 'coach' is used for all kinds of personal counseling, even if someone is actually a therapist, supervisor, advisor, counselor or consultant. What distinguishes Essence coaching? There are many coaches who just “fix” someone, says Tan. Essence coaching is different, because you restore the connection of your personality with your passion and your origin. Tan therefore does not work with clients who are directed by their boss, that would not work.

logo essence coaching

Tan explains: You cannot help yourself from your personality alone. But in contact with your origin you find very effective answers and you change quickly. You not only change your behavior, but you also find your own unique identity. A student recently said that he experiences Essence coaching as very light: the insights touch you very deeply while you are solving very basic problems.

A typical working method in Essence coaching is “Direct experience”. What is that? Tan: By feeling and thinking at the same time, you stay more in the moment. You feel what is present at that moment, and not the thoughts and emotions of the past. Direct experience is such an effective means, because the drama, the story, is omitted when feeling. For example, Tan recently spoke to someone who was strongly convinced of something and who always wanted to propagate this. That took a lot of energy. I asked: Just stop for a moment. What are you experiencing now? She said, When I stand still, I go crazy. Apparently she was scared, she avoided the pain. If you stop for a moment, you discover that you may feel lonely, or that you have developed one-sidedness, for example by having to be very strong.

web photo-May-Ing-2

We also work a lot with integration, says Tan, for example the integration of your feeling, your thinking and your will. She tells about a valued manager who came to her. She is a strong woman with a powerful appearance. As she paused to reflect on the moment, she realized she was actually always being criticized by her mother and is still proving herself. While there is no reason to do so now. Her will had taken on a life of its own. In terms of polarities, her mind had become more dominant than her body, and her masculine half took over from her feminine half. Through the integration you will find your own center and you will find more balance, in your perpendicular. The softer side of this powerful woman was there again. In this way you do not develop unilaterally, but you become connected with all your potentials within yourself. If you don't know that you're running through like that to prove yourself, keep going. The insight means that you can decide to stop.

May Ing Tan and Lenne Gieles

May Ing Tan is not only inspired by Lenne Gieles, the founder of Essentiecoaching and author of the book “Thuis”. Robert Quinn has also inspired her when he writes about competing values. He uses combinations of opposite words that complement each other. An example of such polarity is “responsible freedom”. Freedom without responsibility does not work. He also talks about “hard love”, “lovingly setting boundaries”, and “grounded vision”. If you unite these polarities, you are in the middle yourself and, depending on the situation, you can move more to the left or more to the right. This gives you more freedom. You no longer become dependent on patterned behavior. You get more control over your choices.

Robert Quinn

Essence coaching is always about changing yourself and opening up your own abilities. How did May Ing establish the connection between feeling, thinking and wanting? May Ing: “I'm actually very sensitive, but I put the feeling aside at some point. Through the integration of thinking and feeling I regained my soft strength. In addition to determining and steering, I can now also follow more, have more fun and enjoy instead of having to. This makes me more in touch with people. At the same time, I am better able to make big decisions, because I am less afraid of my own strength. I was very bossy but at the same time insecure. One evening it took me a long time to recognize how bossy I actually was. That was my first step towards integration. Now I'm less bossy and more confident about myself.

May Ing was almost 13 when they fled from Indonesia to Germany. She talks about her childhood: I ended up in the Netherlands through a wanderings. Everything was strange and I didn't speak the language. Yet I looked at that strange thing differently, because I knew we were going to live here. When we entered the Netherlands by train, we passed a row of houses and I was so amazed at how small the houses and gardens were. That people could live so close together. I also noticed how much people kissed in the street. Sexuality and intimacy was very visible and public. Her mother taught her to explore everything new. She took her on the bus, from start to finish. The bus driver said: You have to get out. But my mother said: no, we are happy to go to the other end point.

May Ing Tan gained a lot of experience working with immigrants, such as expats and refugees. For example, she worked at ISIS for over 10 years. This organization focuses on managing diversity. Tan: After so many years I know that there is no difference at all between the Dutch and anyone else. The Dutch also have difficulty with their own lack of politeness, with adaptation, with the uncouth.

If you come from abroad, it takes some getting used to that behavior and language use in the Netherlands is rather rough and direct. At the time, her father was very affected by this. I learned that it was better to close my soft side. Just like all other Dutch people. That was good for her career, but she also lost a part of herself. May Ing's message to immigrants: Stay true to yourself and stay connected. Don't be put off by the roughness and directness or if you are rejected by the other. Try to connect with others, even if it is difficult at first. The other person may keep your distance because you look different. Don't shy away from that, just keep in touch. I am becoming more tolerant of the fact that everyone keeps asking: where are you from? That is also a way for others to connect.

My desire is that it will become more common in the Netherlands to talk about being a Chinese Dutch person, or a Brabant Dutch person. And that we will see how valuable each unique contribution is to our society. If everyone can be themselves and fully develop, the Netherlands will become an even nicer country where you can just be a person.

What irritates you? - Interview with Roeland Bosch

In 2014, during my Essence coaching course, I got into a conversation with Roland Bosch, organizational consultant, trainer and coach. When I met Roeland again this week, I told him about how he inspired me at the time, not to move away from irritation and resistance, but to investigate it.

“Resistance is not something to be avoided. Resistance is an expression of something that someone finds important and that has emotion behind it. That feeling often refers to important values ​​and beliefs. So valuable to consider. ” (Roeland Bosch).

Roland Bosch

Roeland Bosch is an organizational consultant, trainer and coach with a psychology background. Roeland works as an independent entrepreneur (IKOS consultation) and for larger assignments he collaborates with other advisors.

I met Roeland in the Westergasfabriek, on an autumn afternoon of 2014. Although he is completely rained wet, he meets me with his broad pleasant smile. Who can resist such an appearance?

Pacific Parc

I know the theme of resistance from the practice of leadership. I often experienced that negative experiences with previous managers meant that employees with suspicious eyes welcomed me as a newcomer. I also learned in practice how to deal with anger or sadness that employees showed when I gave them attention and showed curiosity. I realized that those emotions were often related to past memories. In situations with colleagues who put you on a pedestal because you happen to be their supervisor, I sometimes caught myself adopting a paternal attitude, a form of counter-transfer. Now I wanted to know how you deal with these themes as a coach.

While I tell him that I want to talk to him about transfer, among other things, I realize that the choice to approach him may also have to do with form of transfer. I had previously experienced him as an inspirer during a leadership training. At the time, I was very impressed with his cheerful, self-assured appearance while he stayed for a large group of managers and showed his feelings. Now I expected good advice from him, as from my father, but I am quickly helped out of that dream by his hesitant first reaction.

Roland Bosch

Well, what is resistance actually? He muses. It's normal for someone to resist when you confront. I often don't call it resistance. And especially in one-on-one conversations, this is a good reason to keep asking questions. It matters whether someone voluntarily opts for coaching or whether someone is “sent” by his manager. And in team coaching, resistance often says more about the dynamics within the team than about an individual.

Roeland tells an anecdote:

I recently had a customer who had been told by his supervisor that more was expected of him to maintain relationships with his customers and suppliers. He did not see the usefulness and necessity of this and felt resistance, but suddenly realized during the conversation that it was perhaps more about his effort and inability to give substance to this. So the resistance brought him new insights.

In one-on-one processes you switch a lot by pushing along and against the throttle. I also re-contract a lot, so you always coordinate the wishes of the customer. How far does he want to go in sharing dilemmas and underlying themes? Someone had requested 360 degree feedback from their employees and wanted to share this with me. I then checked whether he was willing to share what kind of litter he comes from. He was only willing to do this after he understood that this would enable me to contribute ideas and relate the criticism to aspects of his upbringing and social environment.

I actually always run into resistance with peer groups. If you try to reveal patterns when discussing case histories, it is often difficult for people to recognize. Then it happens faster that people show resistance. How do you recognize that there is a transfer? I recognize this when the reaction of someone in the group is more violent than I expect based on the situation.

In a group it can happen that someone lashes out at me. I then check what I have said, which makes the other person emotional. Often the emotion can be traced back to a form of transfer, because in a group I position myself more as a leader. Hierarchy by definition evokes transfer and often also resistance.

What I do a lot is my own feeling, using my reaction in the coaching conversation. If I feel uncomfortable, it may be that others that this person works with may experience the same experience. By giving back my feeling in response, the coached person can investigate whether this reaction occurs more often.

Do you ever catch yourself counter-transfer? Roeland laughs at the term “catching”. Getting caught sounds like it shouldn't be there, and I think it's important to recognize that countertransference can also be of value if you're aware of it. Vigilance for your own reaction is always important. I am especially very alert to myself if I feel a lot of emotion in a conversation, feel a lot of compassion or impatience. So if there is too much distance or involvement on my part, I know to be careful. Before you know it, you're going to try to save someone and that won't help anyone.

How do you prevent this? I don't deal with that too theoretically. I believe that as a coach you have to have some intuition, so I don't want to react too reasoning, convulsively during a conversation. If I notice that my thoughts are drawing attention, I try not to judge it, but to use it constructively. For example, I say: “I notice that I am getting irritated by this”. Or when I get impatient, I ask myself what I'm missing in the conversation. Are we not getting to the essence enough? I can then also bring that up for discussion.

Reports also reveal a lot about possible resistance. Why do certain things go unmentioned? I always ask coachees to make reports of conversations and consciously do not make reports of conversations myself. Based on the idea that the coachee himself remains more “in the lead” about his own coaching trajectory. I will respond to the report if I receive it. I only record the action points. I like to challenge you to experiment. For example, I recently spoke to a marketer who was always thinking about work when she was at home. At work she started to do something else when she started to worry, but she couldn't do it well at home. That is why I agreed with her that if she found herself thinking, she would clean up.

Does it sometimes happen that he refrains from coaching someone after an initial conversation? I ask him. If I have too many cross-connections, I don't start. For example, if I coach a manager, I will not also coach one of his employees. I also do not coach someone if they do not want to be coached themselves, for example someone who has been sent by their manager. That is why I always let the potential coachee contact me first. But I don't remember, for example, missing someone because of the lack of a click. I believe I should be buddies with something in the other. So you always find a click.

I do sometimes refer you to a therapist. I then discuss that a number of questions are eligible for coaching, but that another part will not be addressed. I advise: consider looking for help next to or after the coaching for those other questions, which are more related to personal life and are not work-related. A person can best determine what he needs at that moment. Perhaps only coaching is enough for now and he is still looking for a psychotherapist at a later date.

I ask him about his biggest pitfalls in coaching. He mentions impatience as a recurring point of attention. Sometimes someone is not ready for anything. Sometimes I am a bit self-absorbed in the sense of: I think I can see very well what is going on here, but you don't see it yourself yet ”. We both laugh at the recognition. Another point is that I don't always define the boundary between coaching and therapy. Sometimes I am rooting too much in private matters. I do this, because I think that sustainable change also means that you have to go deeper, at conviction and identity level you quickly get under someone's skin and the boundary between work and private life can no longer be drawn so sharply.

While he talks passionately about this, I hear an important conviction and motivation from Roeland. He continues about one of his passions: systemic work, in which he looks at the past by simulating a family situation and organizational constellations. I often ask: what kind of nest do you come from, what is important to you, how do you think you were formed? What does that say about the here and now? The goal is to become freer in the here and now, not to keep rooting in the past. This transfer and projection are also related to this, so often the reflex says a lot about the past, more than what is going on here and now.

And so we come back to the theme of resistance. Our conclusion of the evening is that resistance is often a good reason to reflect on someone's values, if you think about it, it shows something you can do with.

While I travel home, I realize that, like Roeland, I am very accessible and approachable and that I do not evoke much resistance. He told me about this, that for a time he saw this as a quality, but that he learned to watch out, not to lose his individuality. This is very recognizable to me. By empathizing with the other person too much, I convey the confrontational message in such a way that someone can hear it, so that it evokes less resistance. But sometimes I do my own feeling too short or even stronger, I come across as matt and soft. A more definite way of expressing, with my own emotion in it, comes in deeper and can affect the other more. For example, counter-transfer can also be a useful means, provided it is allowed consciously and in doses, to use in coaching.

Tijs Breuer reed land

That same week I experience in several conversations how valuable it is to be aware of my own emotion and to show it more to the other. I also express my emotion, as Roeland did: "I notice that I get irritated". No conflict arises when I say this, but rather a much more lively conversation in which the other person also dares to show his emotions more. So a valuable insight.

Looking back at the interview, the most important lesson for me was that resistance and transmission is not something to be afraid of or to avoid. It is precisely by paying attention to it that a valuable conversation can start, which is much more useful to the coachee. That same evening I intend to be alert to signs of resistance in conversations as a manager and especially as a coach, to use this as a starting point for more depth and to get to the essence faster.